Career Crashers Podcast: Learning Skills with a Crash Mindset with Corné van Straten

"I don't think I could have done it if somebody had told me to do it." This week on Career Crashers Joel is joined by Crash operations manager Corné van Straten! Corné shares his story of breaking out of the schooled mindset and discovering his potential for learning and growing in his career.

This week on Career Crashers Joel is joined by Crash operations manager Corné van Straten!

As operations manager Corné is charged with coordinating outreach, marketing & sales efforts, customer success and more.

Corné shares his story of breaking out of the schooled mindset and discovering his potential for learning and growing in his career.

Taking the initiative, seeing opportunities to create value and just going after them, instead of waiting for permission or for an assignment.

He tells the story of how he learned to code on his own and how he pitched Crash to win his opportunity.

I don’t think I could have done it if somebody had told me to do it.

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Show notes

  • The permissionless mindset, and why it’s so valuable to your career.
  • Why self-motivated learning beats institutional learning.
  • The core of crashing: specific value propositions to specific companies.
  • Doing contract work as a way to get your foot in the door and prove your value.
  • Balancing immediate value creation with professional growth.
  • Engaging your whole self in the pursuit of things you’re interested in.
  • Why the importance of finding a company you truly want to work for can almost not be overstated.
  • Why creativity is the best insurance against robots.

Connect with Corné

Full Transcript:

I am joined by Corne Van Straten, who is my partner in crime, my colleague at Crash. He and I are responsible for the tweets you see on the Career Crash Twitter. And I am thrilled to dive into his story a bit and talk about the crash mentality.

So welcome, Corne. And let’s start it off. Go ahead and give us sort of quick backstory of who Corne is.

Yeah, thanks, Joel. Thanks for having me.

A quick backstory of who I am, sir. Of course, long story, I guess that’s, that’s true for everybody. But I first learned about Crash, the Crash mindset, which was then only a person in, in Praxis, or I guess it’s sort of parent company, district company, whatever you want to call it. When I was when I first heard Isaac, when he was a guest on on the Tom Woods podcast, actually.

And I immediately like resonated with the whole thing. The whole mindset there, we’re gonna dive a little deeper into especially the, you know, permissionless mindset. And, you know, providing a value proposition on your job points, that kind of thing. At that point, I just, I just gotten a new job a little while ago, like a few months. And I immediately started putting everything into practice at my, my new job where I wanted to.

Yeah, basically, it’s hard to put into words, I guess, but the mindset of, you know, taking the initiative and seeing opportunities to create value and just going after them, instead of waiting for, for permission or for an assignment. And especially at that point, I was very interested in, in schooling and education, in particular, I still am. But at that point, I was very, very much thinking about how can we do this better, because I’ve just completed, gosh, it’s probably 20 years in the school system, and seen a lot of things that could have been going better.

And it’s funny that a lot of the things about the crash mindset kind of directly contradict what you the mindset that you learn in school. And I found that particularly interesting, where in school, you tend to, you know, wait until you get an assignment and you ask a few questions to clarify what exactly the assignment is. And then you do the assignment, and you hope that you do it exactly according to what is asked of you. And if you do that, then you, you know, you get a pat on the back and a grade and you can pass on to the next thing.

Whereas in the real world that works completely differently. I sometimes refer to it as like an open world game, where you can literally do whatever you want to I mean, there are always consequences to everything, of course, but you you don’t you’re not limited to what other people ask if you, you can see opportunity, if you see opportunities somewhere you can go after, you don’t need to ask anybody’s permission.

And yeah, I found that very liberating and very freeing. Um, so I love that mindset. At that point, I was not considering, you know, joining Praxis, because I just, you know, gotten a job. So it wasn’t really for me, not to mention, I still lived in the Netherlands back then. So I was not really an option anyway.

But what I was really considering is our planning, actually, together with my wife, Katie to set up an alternate some alternative to the school system, because my wife was, was homeschooled. And so that was a very interesting perspective as well. And, you know, we’ve kind of started to, to combine these, these insights of what what learning could be, and trying to come up with, with a way to, you know, to structure that for, for an alternative to schooling.

And that’s how I came up with the idea of, of what I later called Radius, which is, was an open marketplace for learning in real life. And the idea there was that there are so many people around you that know stuff that you don’t know, and the most straightforward thing in the world would be to find the people that already know where you want to learn and learn from them directly. And why isn’t that possible yet?

So, yeah, I started to to envision some sort of an Airbnb like marketplace for that kind of, for that kind of thing. So could be anything like you want to learn how to repair your car, find someone who knows how to repair your car, you know, pay him a few, a few, a few dozen dollars or however, how am I Where much they charge and learn from them directly.

You know, as an adult as a, as a young adult as a kid, it, I thought it was a beautiful idea. So I wanted to set up that platform, and I started to look around on the internet for, like, how can I make this platform, and lo and behold, there is not really a software out there where you can just click, click, click, click, click, new air, Airbnb, like platform together.

So I had to bite the bullet. And basically, I have to, I had to learn how to code. I decided that that’s what it was going to take, which was actually really intimidating, because I was never really much of a computer person, especially when I, when I grew up. But you know, I had, I’d learned so much about, about learning new about learning itself about learning new things. And, you know, felt so empowered, I guess, by that by the whole Crash mindset, like, you can go after whatever you want, and learn whatever you want.

So it was like, I’m just going to do this. So I bought this, this course on Udemy. What is it, I think was called a Web Developer Crash Course or something that cost me 15 euros. So it’s like $17, or something like that. And I spent the next seven to nine months, teaching myself how to code. And yeah, it’s, it was, it was really, really hard. It’s a lot harder than, than anything I’d ever done in school or in university.

But, yeah.

Let’s flesh that out in terms of, and I love that you have this foundation, because you’re, you’re curious and motivated about education, and self directed learning and your, your following Praxis. And this is my, my story as well, like I such good stuff, because you just kind of found found this mindset of self driven living. And you were really fascinated by that. And you said, Man, I want to contribute and make an impact and, and do something and you were like, oh, maybe this Airbnb type idea. And then you realize you needed to learn to code. So then learning to code became a necessity, right?

It was one of the necessity is the mother of invention. Like you, you needed this because you were had this calling basically to, to make this impact. So then it’s like, Alright, well, if I’m going to do this, then I need to learn to code, as opposed to, I need to learn to code because this is the assignment that I was given myself.

And this is sort of that the entire essence of what we call learn out loud. And that’s something that you preach strongly in your website, and your brand, constantly blogging and learning out loud. talk more about that, that sort of learning because you need to because you’re, you’re intrinsically drawn to do something.

Yeah, that’s a that’s an interesting part, it definitely makes it a lot easier to to want to learn something I don’t think I could ever have done it. If somebody had told me that I needed to do it, that that’s absolute. That’s something that’s absolutely clear to me, because especially about it, the thing about coding is that sometimes you just get stuck.

And you know, and if there’s, if you just like me, I bought a $15 Udemy course, you know, you’re stuck, nobody, you can notice that you can ask nobody to help you out. And it takes hours and hours to to get unstuck. I remember this one thing very clearly, where I had just developed like a tiny, tiny feature. And I was running my code, and nothing was working. I was like, What is going on? I don’t understand.

And I rolled it back to before, you know, I developed this new feature and was still not working. And I couldn’t figure it out and then eventually had to roll back to really old version. I was like, Well, this was my last stand. I can’t any I can’t figure it out. And so I lost a whole bunch of work doing that which in hindsight, I didn’t have to but I was just such a noob back then. That didn’t realize, realize that lost a whole bunch work and then it still didn’t work. And I finally found out that I didn’t hadn’t started my database.

So it wasn’t even running on the back end. So that kind of thing takes you hours and hours of frustration that the only way you’re going to get through that is if you if you really really want it, you know and that’s that’s also I think the power of self directed learning.

Because people tend to think I think that you know, if you leave people to their own devices, they will just you know, sit on the couch and play video games, but the opposite is true. You know, a few people sit on the couch and play video games in their spare time. But what they do you know, when they actually have some flame going that they really want to do, then you know, what they can do is, it’s pretty much limitless, almost you can push through almost anything.

At that point, you will still be frustrating will still be a lot of hard work. But you you will actually do it. That’s probably the biggest, the biggest difference.

Yeah, I like to say, when you know the why, than the how and the what fall into place, you have that underlying fuel, and you can be unstoppable. That’s why we’re always teaching people a Crash, like just find companies that you love. And then you’re going to be pumped to do whatever you need to do to get in the door to create projects to pitch.

So let’s talk about that for you. Because you so you’re done seven to nine months of this coding journey in this course. And then, about a year ago, flesh out the timeline more and so about a year ago, at you know, 2019, 2020, you were on the job hunt, and yeah, actually pitched Crash when they weren’t even hiring. So tell us how that all played out.

Yeah. So fast forward a little bit after I learned how to code. And I’ve actually started to develop that. That platform, which is actually a really interesting experience, too, because I’d finally completed that course. And at the end of that course, was was building a little platform called Yelp Camp as a as a project, which is kind of like Yelp, but for campsites. And it was actually very, pretty similar to what I wanted to build only, you know, completely different themes.

So I was like, oh, man, I’m ready, you know. And then I started to do my own project. And I realized that I still didn’t know anything. So yeah, that still took took a long time. Um, but so yeah, like I said, fast forward to, to beginning of last year, I had just moved to the United States, and my wife is American, which is why we actually could move to here and move to the United States in 2019 in November. So that’s now, Yeah, it’s a little over 11 months ago. Yeah. So something like that.

And, yeah, so so I definitely had the plan to start the platform at that point. But I’d also gotten a little scared because it got a little real for me to to actually start launching this platform. And to live off of that, because it was, it was going to be pretty much a startup and very little income in the very beginning. So I came up with a very minimal version, basically an MVP version that I could set live and test the waters a little bit and see if there would actually be market for this.

Yeah, so that I can actually get it off the ground before I would put, you know, our life savings and everything else behind it. And I did that for a few months, I taught myself how to run, you know, Facebook ads, and Google ads and all that kind of stuff. And to see if I could whip up enough enthusiasm to to start launching this. And unfortunately, that wasn’t, wasn’t flying.

So yeah, poured a lot of money into into ads to see, you know, if we could get any interest in that, and was just very, very minimal. So I had to decide to to put the project on hold and actually start looking for a job. And at that point, I’d already heard of Crash because of, because I’d been on the on the newsletter for I don’t know how long ever since Kemp came out, because I followed Isaac since since I first heard about him, so four years at that point.

So I was already very familiar with the Crash mindset and read tons of stuff about it. So I was already pretty sad that I was not gonna use a resume to to apply anymore. And yeah, I was definitely going to use the Crash mindset. So like creating a value proposition and making that specific value proposition to a specific company, which I still think is the core idea behind Crash.

So yeah, I started using Crash and I made a couple of pitches to two other companies actually, that I was sort of halfway interested in half half as a test, and half to see if I could actually get my foot in the door, but the keenness that I made there was that I didn’t send it to a specific person I just applied on, you know, the online portal and posted the link to my Crash page in there. And turned out nobody actually looked at that.

But my, you know, my main thing is I wanted to work for Crash, because I love that mindset, it had brought me so much also in my previous job. Because that whole mindset, you know, it’s not just about job hunting, it’s about you know, taking, as Isaac likes to call it taking charge of your life and career.

And it just doing that over the career I had in the Netherlands over those three to four years. It really, you know, it, I’m not going to say that I like exploded my career or something. But it went as fast as it was going to go within that big corporation that I was gonna I was in. So yeah, I love that mindset. I want it to be part of it. And I already knew so much about Crash I. Yeah, so I wanted to be a part of that.

And you found you found Dave, our lead developer, he had posted something about an apprenticeship for…

No, yeah. So if you look up Dave’s profile on on LinkedIn, it’s, it said something about being the lead developer, and lead and about leading a apprenticeship driven team or something like that. And I think that was still kind of old information. Because when, when Crash was still a part of of Praxis, as soon as that is obviously apprenticeship program. Um, but, you know, I…

You interpreted that your own way.

Right. I was, I was like, you know, what, if this is what it says, then I would love to be part of that, I can totally mention that, because I knew that I had some, some coding skills, but I was nowhere near ready to be a an actual junior developer yet, like I was, it wasn’t a matter of, you know, getting me set up for a few weeks, and then I’d be ready to go, I knew that.

But I figured, you know, I am, you know, really, for well versed in the Crash mindset, I can write quite a bit, because I’d already had my blog up for for for quite some time, at that point for over a year, I think, done the 30 day block, blogging challenge. And that, you know, just keeping up with the blogging help my writing out a lot. And also, you know, there’s, it’s a startup, there’s only a fluent few employees, there is always in startup land, there’s always a million things to do, and only a few hands.

So anything that you can add that creates value. And, you know, as long as you can create more value than you take out, basically, you’re going to be a good option. So yeah, that was actually kind of hard for me to decide how I was going to pitch Crash, because I knew that like, my probably most developed hard skill was coding. But like I said, it wasn’t up to, you know, junior developer standard yet.

But I also had a ton of soft skills, in my opinion that I was that I could put forward. And so I, what I decided to do is just create a double value proposition. And it create my pitch and be like, Hey, I can do this, and this and this. And this, or, alternatively, I could also do this, and this and this, and I created two projects actually to show to show like what I could do and send it directly to Crash.

Sorry to Isaac, yeah, at Crash and yeah, it was awesome. The, I think I got a response within within 30 minutes, probably. Which was pretty amazing. And the first sentence was, this is very compelling. Yeah, and but the rest of the, the message was, I, I can’t promise anything because we’re, you know, we’re small and we’re not hiring and, you know, but.

So Isaac felt like the least he could do for me was, was give me an interview because I basically, you know, knock down the door. And yeah, so I knew that they they weren’t hiring at that point. Isaac was trying to keep the team you know, lean and mean and yeah, still Crash is still frequent very much figuring out product market fit and at that point, you want to keep your team small and expenses low. So I totally got that.

But at the same time, I you know, I will wanted in. And I thought I could bring a lot to the table. So yeah, we started out with with just some, some contract work. And Isaac, let me let me work with, with Jeremy on the marketing side and with Dave on the developmentment side and did some work on both sides.

Yeah, you pitched Isaac on a two week trial, right?


So he gave you this trial and then you proceeded to crush it and create tons of value. And I believe that’s when you created this Google Chrome extension?

That extension came out a little later. That was that was a little later. Yeah, at that point I was. I was creating whatever I could, I was, I was so determined to. Yeah, and and now I had my foot in the door, I was working for probably like 14 hours a day to make sure that I got…

Yeah, like you’d already gone above and beyond to just do this value proposition or this double value proposition and show your, your fervor for the mission for the Crash and the specific value you could create. And then you had the trial, and he just kept on going.

And then that’s, then you’ve kept on going in the role and embodying the mindset, as you said, it’s not just to get the job. It’s just a mindset about not waiting for permission. So I think it’s awesome. I think it’s awesome did that and you became too good to ignore. And Isaac just basically had to give you an offer at that point. And he knew he couldn’t refuse you at that point. And you’ve been here for a year now.

Yeah, and it’s, it’s been it’s only gotten better, actually. Because I was. So in the beginning, I was just trying to, why do you say that earn your keep or something like that. So I was trying to to get any, any little work that I saw, that I could possibly do, I, you know, requested to do it. So the first thing was just jumping on, you know, an intercom and talking to users with, with direct questions, I could do that, you know, little emails that needed to be written, I wanted to do that.

Anything that was that didn’t require a lot of technical or prior knowledge. I basically raised my hand and asked if I could do that. And, you know, helping out with, with the social media stuff, and all that all that kind of stuff I dragged as much as much work my way as possible.

Yeah, and the thing about that, though, is that I was, yeah, so I was doing a lot of work that can be considered low hanging fruit. Basically, just to, like I said, to earn my or my key, or is that how you say it?

Yeah, yeah.

Okay. That’s good. Good to know.

But yeah, eventually, I wanted to, eventually, I wanted to do more in the actual code. And I did actually do some something in the code from the very beginning, which was a very independent feature in that case was, I think, was Yeah, I was making the sitemap, which was just a matter of combining different Sitemaps that were hosted somewhere else. And it was, it was cool, but it didn’t require me to actually know the code base a lot, right.

And so it was, it was a lot of a balancing act, for me to, to actually get into that more, because if you actually want to want to be coding, most of the time, it just requires a lot of prior investment in, you know, learning code base, and also just learning the new technologies that that this is built on. Because you know, there are tons of different libraries and frameworks and all that kind of stuff. And you’re never, or almost never going to know every single thing that the company is already using.

So yeah, I had to balance basically between learning the thing that I wanted to learn and becoming really valuable in on the coding side, and wanting to be valuable to Crash in the first place. But yeah, I’m really happy to say that, that definitely paid off in over the last year.

And Isaac actually came up to me and said that I should start doing more of the stuff that made me come alive, basically, entirely in line with the Crash mindset. And that I had to put all the time that I could basically into, into learning how to code better and becoming even more valuable for Crash that way.

And so I’ve been gradually shifting my workload more and more in the direction of, of the code, and still doing all kinds of other stuff on the side. But, yeah, it’s been really good, really good.

Well, I just want to highlight for the listener, that the, the practice of pitching a company, when they’re not hiring is a win no matter what even if you hadn’t actually gotten the offer. The the sort of this ferocious, forward tilt, you had this motivation to do what really makes you come alive, which ultimately got you the offer, like you were pursuing this particular company, and you put all this time, energy, creativity into the value proposition. And worst case scenario is that you learned how to create a value proposition, and then you can apply that to the next pitch.

Often, I think we forget that and we as in a Crash seeker might forget that, that even if you quote, unquote, fail, where you don’t get an offer, for a particular pitch, you are digging out this groove, where you’re learning the process, you’re building up the sort of creative audacity to pitch someone when they’re not hiring. And you’re like, like, knock down that fence. And that’s so exciting and empowering, and you can always just apply that to the next, the next opportunity.

So awesome that you did that. Um, I wanted to kind of switch gears a little bit, but also bring it back to what you’re saying about at the beginning about your interest in education. And I got this tweet, well, it’s actually it’s a tweet that Isaac our founder, pulled from the newsletter that you sent out, one of the one of the hats you wear is at Crash is newsletter extraordinare writer. So that comes out on Fridays.

And you you had this amazing, amazing bit. And I’m just gonna read, I’m gonna read this real quick. And I want you to kind of riff on this. So remember, back in school, when you were made to do an assignment, you had no interest in, you stalled and Daydream. And only after a ton of reminders, you finally got around to it. Maybe the teacher even told you, you lacked perseverance. And maybe you even thought they were right.

But then when school was out, and you finally got back home, you beat the final boss in Super Mario, even though it took you a million tries, and it was super frustrating at times. Clearly, you didn’t lack perseverance. It’s just hard to give your all to something you have no interest in. This applies doubly to your job hunt.

Yeah, I came up with that with that Tweet. Because I think I think the biggest difference between the Crash mindset, and the the the, you know, the normal, I guess, mindset is that that showing of initiative, and you’re going after things, and I think a lot of people that have gone through the school system.

They have gotten so accustomed to, you know, basically just following orders that they, they feel disempowered in the sense that when two senses, I guess to one in that they can actually cannot actually choose the direction that they want. Because they’re just so accustomed to just choosing an option if they have one, like, write your assignment about this or this topic.

And two, where are we going with this? So the first part is that you don’t have the direction and the second part Oh, yeah, that you don’t actually have the power. You can harvest all your power, it seems like when you feel it when you when you do an assignment that you have to do, and you have to get it done by I don’t know midnight or something. And you have to write out in a 2000 word essay or something like that. It can feel like such a drag that you you think you can’t even write, and but it’s really just because the topic doesn’t interest you.

And really, if you if you were interested in something, you have a ton of you can put a ton of effort into there. And you can be you know, like 10, 100 times more powerful. You can harvest way more of yourself and put way more of yourself into something they actually want to do. And the difference is just day and night. And I want to I think that that my experience and learning how to code compared to my experience, earning, you know, earning a master’s degree is a perfect example because sometimes you have to You have these classes are like, this is a literal waste of time.

But you still have your exam coming up and you’re just, you know, procrastinating procrastinating because it just doesn’t interest you. And then when you can’t procrastinate anymore, you’re going through this stuff and it won’t stick in your head and you reading it just won’t stick because it you just don’t care about it at all. Right?

That is, it feels like you can start feeling like you just someone who lacks procrastinate lacks mental fortitude, you can’t persevere, you can’t do anything hard. But it’s really not true. It’s just because you’re not interested in something.

And so, yeah, I think that I also said that in the newsletter, the the importance of finding a company that you actually want to work for can almost not be overstated, because it brings, it really brings you to life, in in a sense, and you go from like robot mode, where you just do what you’re told, and not not a, you know, Iota more than that to completely enlisting all the creativity and brainpower that you can, can muster to, to accomplish something.

And it’s really, it’s night and day difference. And that’s why I wanted to bring up that little story from because I thought that everybody recognizes that from school. And the contrast is like immediate, you know, you know that, yeah, you know what, actually, I felt that way, and I could never get anything done.

And I felt like it was a drag, but then actually, I also did something that was actually pretty hard. And, and it’s, it’s nice to name that now because video games used to actually be pretty tough to beat. Which nowadays seems like it’s not too much the case anymore. But yeah.

Yeah, it’s all about that premise, right? Like, doesn’t matter, necessarily your work ethic so much as well, what is it you’re working on? Right, make sure you’re choosing the correct the correct thing to work on.

That’s also why I think it’s a good idea to, to start with, like a mission that you that you have an affinity with, that you want to accomplish, and then work your way backwards to what, what companies trying to accomplish this because if you look at my, my work here at Crash, obviously, you know, coding a feature is completely different than writing a newsletter. And, and, or writing social media and stuff.

But it’s, it’s all directed in, in a similar direction, and directed towards a similar mission. And that is, you know, it’s still exciting enough to, you know, be able, that you’re able to muster all your creativity, and you actually like think about things in the shower and think, oh, man, this would be a good thing to bring up in the newsletter, or, hey, you know, what, what would be it would make the job one better this wish we could add this feature to, to to Crash, you know, pitch tool, something like that, that would probably really help.

And then, you know, it’s just like I said, it’s night and day difference between just doing something because you’re told to do it. And like a robot that never comes up with ideas of its own? And yeah, and actually doing what you love and using your entire self to do it.

Yeah, I think it’s worth reflecting a bit on on your school experience, and that sort of psychology of okay. I mean, the fact is 70 or 80% of people don’t like their jobs. And that’s what we’re trying to change here at Crash. And it’s like, Where, where did that come from? Why is that the case?

Well, we learned in school to kind of bury through the week, and do things that we don’t like to do and just get this work done and build up this willpower of a work ethic that’s not based on the premise of intrinsic motivation, curiosity, joy, excitement, right?

So what we want to do is sort of shed that that school of mindset and and start figuring out what what kind of tickles my curiosity, what am I interested in? What What problems do I really want to solve?

Not not just not just to earn money and earn money earning money is great, but can you find something that you genuinely are desire that’s greater than just a job and then all of a sudden, like you said, whether you’re coding, you’re writing a newsletter, whatever, whatever task you’re doing, you know, it’s for the mission, the company, and you’re, you’re lit up about doing that.

That’s actually funny that you mentioned that that’s that cuz it’s there’s another little pet peeve of mine that I blog about sometimes, is that people tend to completely overestimate in my opinion, the potency of artificial intelligence, and like, oh, man, that robots are going to take our jobs.

But the thing is no, especially as someone who writes code. By the way, there’s a point to this, this seems like really out there, but I’m getting there, I promise. That when you’re writing code, you will realize that computers are actually really dumb. And you have to the whole thing about code is that it has to be super, super, super specific instructions to the computer, or otherwise, it won’t work.

If you like, misspell something with one character, the whole thing falls apart. Because, you know, if you, you know, if you spelled a file with the wrong extension, or something like that will never ever, ever work, just because the computer can’t infer anything. And I think that the biggest difference between us and computers is that we can come up with we have creativity we can come up with, with like serendipitous ideas.

Like, oh, maybe maybe we could do like this instead of like this. And that is like one of the biggest things that we bring to the table as humans as opposed to machines, because everything that can be standardized, and like just written down in exact instructions is something that a computer can absolutely do better.

And but then you have at the same time, you have the like entire work for like our 80% of it doing stuff that they were they’ve learned in school to just literally follow instructions and not do anything other than what they’re told to do. So yes, if you are in that mindset, you are actually in the in danger of being automated away.

But if you actually harness your own humanity, then you’re definitely never going to be out automated. And so that’s, that’s like, I see, I see these two things happening. At the same time with one one side, on the one side, people just, you know, hammering on in a following direction like they they have been in school and on the other hand, complaining about being automated by things that are designed to literally follow instruction. Is it blows my mind sometimes.

Yeah, don’t be afraid of robots. Unless that robot is yourself.

Yeah, good point. Good point.

Yeah. Become the creative human that you are. And if you don’t feel like that’s you yet, it’s with it’s within you because you’re born artists. We are born entrepreneurs. We are born creators. Go rekindle. Go start creating, go to the blogging challenge, and get that creative fire going and you will become indispensable to a company and a robot can’t replace you because you’re being your fullest self.

So hey, Corne, love it. I’m grateful for your time and people can find you at Any last words of wisdom?

Um, don’t ask for permission go after it. Something like that.

Say one more time. More like you mean it.

If you if you’re not a robot, you won’t be replaced by a robot. Don’t be a robot.

Alright, thanks, Corne.


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